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Tire pressure

Yahoo Message Number: 1926
I am coming to the conclusion that I am running with over inflated tires and need to get the coach weighed, balanced and re calculate the tire pressures.
Until I take the coach out and carry out this project can anyone share what pressures they are running with the 12R22.5 tires on a forty foot Intrigue.

Thanks,

David & Karen,

2000 CC Intrigue 11062
40 ft. Gourmet on the Road

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1927
D&K,

We just had an alignment and also had our tires rotated (50,000 miles) by a respected tire and alignment in company in Fort Wayne (a major trucking city). Technician (regarded plausible by skeptical me) recommended decal pressures shown alongside the VIN. This what we had previously maintained them at. We are Intrigue 11066 (g-o-t-r) and thus are probably quite similar to your vehicle.

Peter
Britannia Inc.
800-274-5245

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1928
We have a 2000 36 foot Allure

with the 12 R Tires built July 2000. It has a 13,200 lb. front axle and 19,000 lb. rear axle rating (In 2001 the same rear axle, wheel and tires are rated at 20,000). We were at an FMCA rally this weekend and had our Coach weighed there. It had full fuel, full water and the basement storage compartments are pretty full of tools, equipment, spare engine oil, transmission fluid, anti-freeze, air compressor, BBQ. etc. and too much other stuff that we don't need. The form with the weight information is in the Coach in storage, but if I remember correctly, the front axle was weighted at about 11,300 lb and the rear weighted 18,750 lb. I run at 92 to 95 psi, which is more than I need according to the Toyo tire chart., but it gives me a decent ride and good handling at that pressure.
Dick

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1929
I'm not sure why, but my '02 Intrigue was delivered with tires at maximum pressure. 120 psi on front, 110 psi on rear duals, and 120 psi on tag axle. I guess they are playing it safe in case the customer loads it up? I have since dropped them down about 10% all the way around.
Rob

'02 Intrigue - #11480

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1935
Anyone who has not had a 4 point weight check should run their tires at 120 pds. That is what CCI tells you. Thats because you can't depend on the weight of the front end to be equal on each wheel. If one wheel is heavier then the other you need to inflate to the higher amount. That's why you need 120 pd until you have this done. Several years ago American Eagle and CCI had a problem with this and they replaced front tires that came from the factory below 120. They also reconfigured the weight distribution. AE had 5 deaths from low tire pressure on a heavy front driver's side. Bill G.

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1938
Quote
"I'm not sure why, but my '02 Intrigue was delivered with tires at maximum pressure. 120 psi on front, 110 psi on rear duals, and 120 psi on tag axle. I guess they are playing it safe in case the customer loads it up? "

I was at a rally where CC personnell said just that. The owner was instructed to weigh his coach and decrease air based on his actual weight as soon as he had it weighed.

Sincerely

George W Becker

gwb36@... 1999 Country Coach Intrigue #10700

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5117
Joe,

I don't believe any tire manufacturer recommends you run the tires at 75#. That's is to low, it give you no margin for a drop in pressure. I'm surprised your coach weight is that low.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5120
Bill,

I was shocked, too. Remember this is the same CCI that looked at the steering twice before and could not find any thing wrong. They left the 4 point weighing results in the coach to show me how they came up with the 75#. I did notice when they heat up the pressure goes up into the 80's. Les Schwab in Seaside, OR told me they did a lot of commercial tires of my size and type and would NOT lower the front pressure below 100. CCI said I was riding a rail at that pressure and lowered them all to 75, so who would know better. I am positive I do not. However, one main reason we bought CC was because we could get factory service. If we ignore their advice, or fixes, what was the point? We might as well go back to surly, uncooperative dealerships. If you know what I mean.

Joe and Patti
Allure 03 30854

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5122
It's always interesting..... Schwab (Les... not Charles) set my rear tires at 95. The chart called for 90 but they said they like to see a 5 lbs cushion.
When I discussed tire pressure and Smart Tire at the CC factory they suggested that I go to Schwab.
Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
"The problem with doing nothing is not knowing when you are finished."

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5124
Hi Joe & Patti,

75lbs sounds a bit low for a 32'. 85 lbs cold sounds more normal.
The ideal situation for any coach would be to have it weighed (4 corner) as you are using it with the fuel and water tank full, and you guys in it. Then you can use the tire chart to determine your specific requirements and add 5 lbs. The 4 corner sheet you get with your coach is a dry weight.

Good Luck,

Damon

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5126
We agree with you, but CCI filled it with Diesel, and water and had at least one person in the coach when they weighed it. I guess it's possible they didn't follow all the procedures, but they did weigh it with all the liquids full, ie wet weight.

Thanks for your help tho,

Also, we bought our coach from Guaranty and have been very happy with your service, ad the whole experience.

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5127
It seems that the whole tire pressure thing is confusing and upsetting to some of us. I certainly know it was for Chris and I.

I too went the way of 75# and just about killed us. At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of the group's members with engineering skills, I'll give you my take. Incidentally I have a 40" 2000 Intrigue-single kitchen slide #11142:
As those of us who follow auto racing know, the flex in the side wall of the tire actually becomes part of the suspension of the rig and contributes to "spring rate". The joker in the deck, on our rigs, is the CC air ride system. It is very simple in design and concept, but tricky to get tuned. At first, I incorrectly assumed that the air bags would work in concert with the tire pressure: Softer tires = Softer air bags. NOT SO!!! The softer the tires are, the more active the air valves become. The travel of the actuator arms increases with softer tires, adding more air to the bags as tire pressure goes down (I THINK???)

As I pondered this, I decided to talk to the tech guy at TOYO. He confirmed my suspicions that high tire pressures are a good thing on a CC. I settled on 115# in the front and 92# in the back with my Toyos. I now have Michelin XZ2's on the front and I am running 120# in them. A variation I tried is an old trucker trick to run the inside tires on the back 5# lower. It cushions the effect of the ruts (especially on I-5!!!). I ran 90# on the inside and 95# on the outside for a while with a minimal increase in performance. At the risk of being repetitive, it is WAY important to get the front shocks set on the firmest setting. My rig was bottoming out at one time.
If I am allowed a comment about CC service, I will say that they did alot of work on my coach at the end of 12 months and were very generous and concerned about helping me work the bugs out.

HOWEVER, the suspension are is one area where they seem to have a company line that is not based on real world experience. If I had to venture a guess, they err on the side of a softer ride and set the coach up for drivers who tow and and stay around 55-60 MPH all of the time. As those of us who drive in the Southwest know, you can get run over doing this!!! I have talked to many sales people who have sold coaches for years. They all say that it is incumbent on the buyer to "tune" the ride.

I was ready to give up when Damon pumped me up and motivated me to approach the issues around the coach is a less emotional manner. I think I finally came to understand that it owned me and not the other way around: I have the dubious pleasure of shelling out time and money any time it decides to consume some. I have dicussed this with boat owners and they laugh and share their stories.

At this point, I am convinced is CC is by far the best value in the luxury MH category. The design, materials, and fabrication workmanship are unmatched within a very wide price band (maybe Marathon is slightly stronger with their Prevost conversions).
If I decide to buy another coach, it will proably be from a CC owner who has given up on the nagging little problems and is dumping the unit. I am now confident that I could ferret out the problems and get them fixed - using outside service providers, not CC (unless there is warranty left on remove and replace items).
One final thought: the TOYOs are safe up to 240 degrees and 200 PSI.
Once again CC has an over-engineering margin that provides longevity for the coach and safety fo us.

Chuck Gauthier

La Quinta, CA (every day 100+, Northwest--here we come)

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5128
Hey,

Thanks for a very honest and informative email. Our rig is 32' and so very responsive. I have worked very hard to understand the steering and make sure I don't oversteer. I still am not sure if they/we have it right, but lowering the pressure seemed to help. I haven't started working on the suspension yet.

Joe and Patti Frazier

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5129
It amuses me that you guys are having he same problems with a 32". I convinced myself that a shorter coach would eliminate the problems we were having and considered buying one.

If you want to gamble $1000.00 on a shortcut to better handling, I would suggest the Micelin XZ2 steering tires. They have a very different pattern on the side of the tread designed to make the rig track. Toyo's (on the other hand) have a "scalloped" edge on them. I think the Toyo design is just too "grippy" for the highly responsive steering built into our coaches. Jon at Les Schwab is a key manager there and is very active in interfacing with CC and CC owners. He will give you a good price.

Two other easy adjustments are to 1) set the rear ride height at the tallest setting and the front at the lowest creating as much of a forward "rake" as possible, and 2) get the front end aligned.
As I mentioned before my rig was bottoming out and I did have a bent tie rod end as a result --- worth checking out!!

Regards, Chuck Gauthier
40" Intrigue 11142 (2000)

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5131
Chuck,

I agree with you 100%, especially on the tire pressure. We run ours the same as you and we did that from the start. We have put over 60k on 2 CCs and have never had a tire problem and we never see high tire temps on our Smart Tire system. We also have a policy that at 5 years the tires go regardless of how good they look. Everyone I know who has had a blow out has had it in their 6th year of tire life, unless they are running their tires at low pressures. That was a great note.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5133
Thanks Chuck,

Your suggestions are sound advice. I just wished I could get them done for free. Oh well, If pigs could fly....maybe they'd drive country coaches. ha ha....

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5134
We left our 36' Allure [new] with the factory today. Much of the discussion was about the poor handling. I must say that both Jim Cooley and Mike Scott were very supportive. Mike attributes most handing problems to height. I'm still skeptical. Regarding the tires, we never use Toyo on the front of trucks for exactly this reason. The Michelins have solved similar problems. We just haven't changed them yet because CC should try to fix it first. Regardless of their improvements, the Toyos will come off.
We have left our tire pressures as set at the factory, 110 front and 120 rear. We are also skeptical that lowering the pressure will make them track less.

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5135
Mike Scott worked on ours for about 3 weeks. He did a lot of different things, We had the ride height adjusted. The R.O. showed that they changed it, although they never told us up or down. They checked it by driving and did not recommend a front end alignment, instead the weighed all four corners, and lowered the pressure. It did help some. I found Mike to be very helpful, although some of the techs who worked on the coach were definitely taking short cuts that he was not aware of until AFTER we took delivery. Our advice after trying twice to pick it up? Do not leave the parking lot/camp ground until you have verified that the repairs you asked for were completed. It saves a lot of headaches down the road. Overall, we still like CCI much better than winnebago or fleetwood.

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5138
Doug,

If you press CCI hard enough they will change the Toyo's on the front to Michllin steer tires. They did it on my Magna. We did not have a handling problem but we had a wear problem on the edge of the toyos. They replaced them at 15k.
From what I have learned the Toyos were made as an off the road tire for large dump trucks. They have a great side wall and thats why so many rv manuf. install them. however they are not a great steer tire. The Michilins are a softer riding tire(side walls not as strong) and on the tire we have you need to read the fine print about air pressure and speed. They say you should not run the tire over 55mph for prolong periods of time unless you add 10 # to the required air pressure and then you are good at 65mph for prolonged periods of time.
Most people miss this foot note in the tire manual. The Michilins we have are the largest tire they make and I can't tell you which one it is without going to the storage lot. hopes this helps

Bill

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5139
Bill,

Thanks for the information. I was not aware of the speed limitations on the Michelins. But then I don't read manuals very well. I know the model and they do cost around $500. A small price to pay for better handling.
Doug

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5167
I've been traveling for a couple of weeks, so have missed the good discussion on tire pressures. I had my coach weighed, fully loaded, some time ago, and the result using Toro's chart was 85psi front and 75psi rear and tag. The ride has been super with one exception. The front end frequently bottoms out. I have twice had BuddyGregg-Dallas adjust the shocks with no improvement. Supposedly, they are set at maximum firmness, but there's no way I can tell. I decided on this trip I will request better shocks to alleviate this problem. I am very concerned, though, that one owner experienced a bent tie rod, thus will increase air pressure until better shocks are available.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5168
The bottoming out would not have anything to do with your tire pressures, except with the very low tire pressures you run, it indicates that your coach is underloaded. I've seen tag-equipped Allures that ha over 12,000 pound carrying capacity. Since your air bags are set for a certain height, it follows with a lightly loaded coach, you will have much less air pressure in the air bags, thus the bottoming out. Check the front axle capacity--I suspect you have quite a bit on the front end. Load up the front end, and you will reduce bottoming--sounds funny, but with air bags, that's the way it works. Run with a full fresh water tank, and move heavy items as far forward as practical. If you can get the front end close to capacity, I guarantee you will eliminate bottoming-out.

Per Korslund
Affinity 5259

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5174
Hope this does not sound like too dumb a question but how do you load the front axle to capacity (13,200 lbs I think)? I have a 2000 Allure and even with a full tank of diesel and propane I have almost 1000 lbs capacity left at the front end. Conversely, the rear axle is close to capacity even without water on board. There are no storage bays up front and one is not supposed to store anything in the bay beneath the drivers seat. Adding the wood cabinet at the front dash, passenger side, would help. I have no desire to increase my own personal weight of 190...I have moved heavier items in the storage bays midship but have to get the coach weighed at the FMCA rally. I am having bottoming out though and would like to correct that. Any suggestions, Per? Mike 2000 Allure 30493 98 Honda CRV

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5176
Following are my coach's actual weights loaded with water and fuel and normal contents when traveling( in every case the left side was slightly heavier than the right, so the left was compared against the Toyo chart for 12R22.5 tires):

left frt--act wt 5425 Toyo rec psi 80 Actually using 85

left duals " " 8150 " " " less than 70 " 75

left tag---" " 3850 " " " " " " " 75

Total weight of the coach was 34,425 # which I don't think was over or under loaded, thus I have to look at poor shocks as the probable cause of the frequent bottoming out in the front of the coach and porpoising quite a bit. Where am I missing something?

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Tire pressure

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5178
With all due respect to the member who stated that low tire pressure will not create, bottoming out --- my experience is to the contrary.

It is my opinion that the rebound created by the sidewall flexing of underinflated tires overpowered my shocks and air bags. My front end almost came off the ground when I hit depressions at very low pressures. I am no physics expert (except when it comes to golf, I
wish), but I know that my front end weight is over 12,000 lbs. It seems to me that cycling it up and down a couple of feet would
produce some "g" loading off the scale.

I talked to the guy at Toyo tech service (the phone number is in the black Toyo book). He helped me get to the correct levels on my 40' 2000 Intrigue. Based on the imbalance on my rig (caused my the very heavy 2000 slide mechanism) the book stated that the rears should be at 75 on the right and 85 on the left. I have settled at 92 with good results. I would strongly suggest that you experiment with 110 in the front. The Toyo guy told me that the tires are safe to 200 psi and 240 degrees.

My air bags were not at optimal settings and I played with them (via a chassis shop) until they were compatible with the increased air
pressure.

Don't give up (as Damon convinced me)!!!

Chuck Gauthier
La Quinta, CA