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Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Yahoo Message Number: 1181
I know most of you have given this some thought - I'd appreciate your opinions: the price difference (either used or new) between these three models is dramatic. I've studied the specs, talked to owners/sellers/dealers/factory and heard alot of answers.
Ultimately, it usually comes down to "I bought what I wanted and could afford." So... why did you buy what you have and why did you not buy the other models?

Thanks in advance,

MikeO in COLD San Marcos, TX

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1182
We bought an Intrigue primarily because the Allure didn't have the floorplan we wanted. We would definitely consider an Allure next time if it had the right floor plan. But, as they say, it's hard to go back once you've gotten used to a certain level of anything!

Quote
>I know most of you have given this some thought - I'd appreciate your >opinions: the price difference (either used or new) between these three >models is dramatic. I've studied the specs, talked to >owners/sellers/dealers/factory and heard alot of answers. Ultimately, >it usually comes down to "I bought what I wanted and could afford." >So... why did you buy what you have and why did you not buy the other >models?

Thanks in advance,

MikeO in COLD San Marcos, TX

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1183
Friday we traded our 2001 Safari Cheetah with 2 slides and bought a 98 Magna. 2 major reasons -RV consumer group gave it a very high rating and we were looking for a full time coach without slides.

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1184
We bought a 96 38' Magna on a Gillig chassis. We also used the RV Consumer Group ratings for safety and handling. We, too, decided to get a full time coach without a slide. We were back and forth about the slide for a couple of years. We were looking at Intrigues and found this Magna on the Internet. We liked the features and low mileage. I am not sure there is any value difference of the different models, other than expensive options. Is the difference between the Allure and the Affinity worth the extra dollars? Just an observation. Judith

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1185
My understanding on the difference's on these models are the Allure & Intrigue are built on an assembly line, and the Magna, Affinity, etc are built one at a time. Chassis and suspension are also different and options are only available on certain models.

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1186
My husband and I bought our Intrigue because we liked the floor plan and also the colors of it. The Allure at the time seemed to not have as nice of furniture and such. My hubby like the engine and such in that aspect.

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1187
Quote
So... why did you buy what you have and why did you not buy the other models?

Mike,

My wife and I bought an Allure because it had a floorplan we liked and with the features we wanted. One of the things was the amount of weight that was available for us to load on the coach. We also wanted a coach without tandem axles. The extra set of wheels takes away storage space. All of this for a lower price.

Have fun,
Dave

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1188
Hi Mike,

I have to assume you are a full timer and asking the question from that perspective.
If a person is going full time they will want the floor plan that fits their life style and quality level that fits their budget.

They may also elect to go for a longer unit with multiple slides.
By contrast, non full timers are looking at shorter length trips. More likely to need easier parking and may consider boondocking from time to time where a bedroom slide can be a handicap.
For the latter group a shorter coach with a little less luxury in the fittings may be the right direction to go.
Incidentally, we are not full timers but do have an Intrigue forty foot. We had planned to purchase a 36 ft long diesel. The opportunity to purchase the Intrigue was by accident not by plan.
When considering a replacement in a couple of years I will more than likely opt for a 36ft length and doubt we will look at a quality above the Intrigue or longer length unless by that time we have become fulltimers.

Does this help you?

David & Karen,

2000 CC Intrigue 11062
40 ft. Gourmet on the Road

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1190
WOW - 7 replies in 6 hours - that might be a record for this group.
Thanks to all that responded - despite the availability of 40' coaches (both new and used) we are looking to 36'. We are weekenders, not fulltimers. We need space for 4 to sleep comfortably (a challenge) and finally we've come to realize that we like a quality coach. I was very interested to see the responses about slide owners buying non- slide coaches contrary to the "once you have a slide, you never go back." The comment about options is so true - if you want power storage bay locks then you have to go up a couple of models - the value of this is totally subjective and unlike automobiles, seems to cost a bunch more $$$. Resale is also affected - the market for Allures and Intrigues is much larger than Magna Affinity Concept. The analysis continues with no end in sight - hey, isn't this fun? STAY WARM!

Thanks to all,

MikeO in San Marcos, TX

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1191
There are some significant differences between the Allure/Intrigue and the Mag/Aff. product lines. But they are all very, very good coaches.
Yes, the product lines are separated during manufacture. Also the frames are different/stronger and other changes include; suspension, insulation, axles, trans, engine, brakes and electronics. These are a few of the major items that are "under the floor" that you'll probably never see but they make a big difference in load carrying capacity, ride, quietness, handling, etc. They also permit you do many different customization things to the interior, some at no additional charge, others at a charge.
There is also a big difference in price. Can you justify the price difference? Can you justify the cost of buying a motor home? I don't think so..............You decide to buy into a life style and then you decide what you want to pay and what you want to buy.

Den 2001 Affinity

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1192
Mike,

Just a couple more thoughts for you to digest.

The forty foot Allures and Intrigues with single axle have a very long wheelbase. Makes for a really nice ride on the highway but leaves a lot to be desired when maneuvering in confined spaces.

The alternative is a forty foot unit with a tag axle but it comes with its own issues. The tag axle unit loses some storage space, costs more, and weighs more. Remember the present Allure/Intrigue has the 350 ISC engine so with more weight in the basic unit there is a slight trade off in speed on hills and MPG.

If you are looking at a used unit, be aware that Country Coach has made some significant changes to the Allure/Intrigue models over the last few years.

I cannot give you specific dates but some of the changes were:
Change of wheel size and chassis rail size.
Full fiberglass roof.
New entrance door and screen.
Kitchen slides with serpentine hydraulics.
Better instrumentation.

I am sure there are other items.

On our 2000 (December) Intrigue we have the larger wheels and fiber glass roof which I consider a real positive. Not sure when the Allure got the larger wheels.

To get the last three items you would need to jump to a 2002 or maybe a late 2001 unit in which case you will be spending some more dollars.

Good luck with your search.

David & Karen,

2000 CC Intrigue 11062
40 ft. Gourmet on the Road

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1200
Quote
I cannot give you specific dates but some of the changes were:

Change of wheel size and chassis rail size.
Full fiberglass roof.
New entrance door and screen.
Kitchen slides with serpentine hydraulics.
Better instrumentation.

David,

CC has always used a fiberglass roof. In 2000 they went to IFS. In mid 2000 and later the Allure & Intrigue went to the larger frame rail so the larger 12R/22.5 tires would fit. In 2001 the Allure & Intrigue went to the serpentine slide.

Damon

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1202
Hi Damon, When we went on our first factory tour in early 2001 I remember the guide mentioning some change that had taken place in the way they made the roof section. Obviously from your comment it was not a change to the fiber glass roof.

Maybe it was to do with insulation?

David & Karen,
2000 CC Intrigue 11062
40 ft. Gourmet on the Road

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1203
What are the pros and cons of the serpentine slide mechanism used on the Intrigue and Allure vs the hydraulic hardware used in Magna and Affinity?

Are the 2003 models staying with the same slide mechanisms?

RVdrifters
Dan & JoAnne

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1205
The pre 20001 CC models had the old dual ram hydrualic slide, this slide system was good but it deeply intruded into the drivers side bays eating up valuable storage and the mechanism was integrated into the chassis.

In 2001 the Allure and Intrigue went to a 4 point hydraulic serpentine slide. The room was made from aluminum (verses steel) and held in place in all 4 points. This removed the slide mechanism from the basement and chassis and placed it in the coach, one could say this strengthend the chassis. The bay doors are full size on both sides and fully open even with the slide extended. The exterior of the room is completly wrapped in fiberglass for a cleaner look, you can no longer see arm and rams under the slide, its all enclosed. Yes you lost storage under your sofa but you picked up twice that in the basement and you can access it without getting on your knees. With this slide system the "dual directional" slide tray worked great. This slide system also saved an estimated 600. lbs.

Now in 2003 it looks like everything will have this serpentine slide system but it will be electric vs hydraulic. I have delivered some 42' Magna's that have had this new electric slide system, its a bit slower but appears to be much easier to service. If the room jams or gets off kilter there is a reset button on the dash that allows you to align the room pretty easy, I like it better.

I believe all slide mechanisms are manufactured by HWH and are self locking with no manual locks needed. There is also nothing touching the floor (carpet/tile), no rollers under the slide like found in competitors that leave marks and groves.

Damon

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1260
--- My research has determined that the biggest differences (in addition to the fact that higher priced coaches have better fabrics, woods, flooring, and standard features - optional on less expensive models), is that the chassis are different, and bigger more expensive engines are usually employed.

The higher priced coaches have bigger, more expensive front ends (they are purchased by CC and bolted to the Dynomax chassis). As a result the more expensive coaches are heavier and heavier translates to a better ride. A 55,000 lb. Prevost goes down the road like a steam roller.

The Intrigue chassis (2000 and later) is a new design and is well thought of, but many owners report lack of steering stability. The The Allure chassis is an older design and not considered to be as desireable.

The Magna is heavier and gives a more cushioned ride. On this point, the newer coaches with independent front suspension are more maueverable and have quicker steering, but tend to not track as well as a coach with a solid front axle. The IFS coaches seem to be very sensitive to tire pressure.

It really comes down to what is important to you. If you drive slow, almost any of the coaches are acceptable. If you drive faster, tow a heavier car or are really sensitive to ride, a more expensive coach is for you.

The one thing that I would avoid is buying a Magna with a Cummins in it. The Cummins 8.3 liter ISC is really not even enough engine for the Intrigue. 1050 lbs.ft of touque is inadequate. I would go to the 400 hp 1350 lbs.ft ISL in an Intrigue and the biggest CAT that I could get in a Magna. CC uses smaller engines to keep the prices down, but the coaches have outgrown the power plants. Apparently Cummins has intorduced the ISM engine which is the old M11 (500 hp).
This semms to be the real "way to go".
I have a 2000 40' foot Cook's Delight Intrigue with a 350 ISC in it.
I have had many, many problems and an really disappoited based on the CC reputation. I am not really that happy with the handling or the power, oil blow by, electrical problems, but I'm still not sold on the fact that the Magna is that much better for the money and the poorer resale. I am considering an used Beaver Marquis of 42 ft Affinity.

At this point, I think that all of the CC coaches are over hyped.
Rather than making another mistake, I may just learn to live with the poor handling and inadequate power in my Intrigue and avoid pouring more cash down a "rat hole".

*I think that the best value (irrepective of resale) is a pre 2000 Magna with a solid front axle and all of the options on it including a CAT engine. I would avoid a great room slide, it put you eating area on the same side as your neighbors sewer hook-ups!

The prices on the new coaches are out of site and a tribute what happens to a small company that is bought out on leverage (by National). Prices go up and quality goes down to service the new debt!!!

Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1266
Hi Golfnrv,

Quote
--- My research has determined that the biggest differences (in > addition to the fact that higher priced coaches have better fabrics, > woods, flooring, and standard features - optional on less expensive > models), is that the chassis are different, and bigger more expensive > engines are usually employed.

True

Quote
The higher priced coaches have bigger, more expensive front ends > (they are purchased by CC and bolted to the Dynomax chassis). As a > result the more expensive coaches are heavier and heavier translates > to a better ride. A 55,000 lb. Prevost goes down the road like a > steam roller.
The Allure & Intrigue use a Neway IFS, the Magna, Affinity, & Lexa use a Dana Kirkstall IFS

Quote
The Intrigue chassis (2000 and later) is a new design and is well > thought of, but many owners report lack of steering stability. The > The Allure chassis is an older design and not considered to be as > desireable.
Wrong, The Allure and Intrigue chassis are identical, there is no difference. What is this "but many owners report lack of steering stability"? I havent heard this one yet and have been selling CC's since 1997.

Quote
The Magna is heavier and gives a more cushioned ride. On this point, > the newer coaches with independent front suspension are more > maueverable and have quicker steering, but tend to not track as well > as a coach with a solid front axle. The IFS coaches seem to be very > sensitive to tire pressure.
"But tend to not track as well", IFS is the way to go. Remember the "steam roller" you listed above (Prevost), well everyone one built also uses a Dana Kirkstall IFS. I would lile to know your source of information. Blue Bird, another line I carry is also going to IFS very soon. All coaches built are sensitive to tire pressure, with multiple slides becoming more popular the corner weights are crucial now more than ever, regardless of the front axle being independent or solid. Everyone should have there coach corner weighed and check there tire charts for proper inflation.

Quote
It really comes down to what is important to you. If you drive slow, > almost any of the coaches are acceptable. If you drive faster, tow a > heavier car or are really sensitive to ride, a more expensive coach > is for you.

?

Quote
The one thing that I would avoid is buying a Magna with a Cummins in > it. The Cummins 8.3 liter ISC is really not even enough engine for > the Intrigue. 1050 lbs.ft of touque is inadequate.
I think many people would argue this, but its really personal prefference.

Quote
I would go to the 400 hp 1350 lbs.ft ISL in an Intrigue The ISL engine is either available in a 370HP or 400HP, the torque remains he same at 1,200.ft lbs. and the biggest CAT that I could get in a Magna. CC uses smaller engines to keep the prices > down, but the coaches have outgrown the power plants.
??? The engines used in a Country Coach are the same size used in most of the competitors similairly priced coachs. Safari and Beaver offered a C-12 Cat in an Intrigue priced coach as a last ditch effort, they tried to offer more Horsepower and blew themselves right off the board.

Quote
Apparently Cummins has intorduced the ISM engine which is the old M11 (500 hp).
This semms to be the real "way to go".
The M-11 never went away, they just renamed it an ISM. I have them in stock, they are rated at 500HP and a 425HP C-12 will run away from it.

Quote
I have a 2000 40' foot Cook's Delight Intrigue with a 350 ISC in it.
I have had many, many problems and an really disappoited based on the > CC reputation. I am not really that happy with the handling or the > power, oil blow by, electrical problems, but I'm still not sold on > the fact that the Magna is that much better for the money and the > poorer resale. I am considering an used Beaver Marquis of 42 ft
If you purchase the Marquis, please update us on its performance. No coach built is problem free, a little courtesy really goes a long ways in service whether its Country Coach, Newmar, Holiday, etc. I have sold the above three manufacturers coachs, I have had people buy a new coach and have all kinds of problems, they trade it in after a year and I sell it to someone else (customer B), customer B calls me to thank me a dozen times, sends cards, etc? I cannot tell you how often this happens each year, are the new owners not as picky since its used? Did the original owners finally get all the bugs worked out just in time to trade it in? I dont know but it happens often with all three brands listed above.

Quote
At this point, I think that all of the CC coaches are over hyped.
Rather than making another mistake, I may just learn to live with the > poor handling and inadequate power in my Intrigue and avoid pouring > more cash down a "rat hole".
You gave me your serial number previously, you have a 12R/22.5 tire equipped coach. There is something wrong, you could have a ride hieght problem, alignment problem, tire inflation problem, stick ride hieght valve, radial tire pull, shocks defective or need adjusting to your liking, etc.
Something is wrong and you should attempt to get it fixed rather than "live with it". If your in Minnesota I would love to try and repair your chassis, we have an alignment shop and scale close by.

Quote
the best value (irrepective of resale) is a pre 2000 Magna with a solid front axle and all of the options on it including > a CAT engine.
Find a 99 Magna with a C-10 Cat, they are around. I know of a couple that I may get my hands on as well. Both are Galley slides.

Quote
I would avoid a great room slide, it put you eating area on the same side as your neighbors sewer hook-ups! >

The prices on the new coaches are out of site and a tribute what > happens to a small company that is bought out on leverage (by > National). Prices go up and quality goes down to service the new > debt!!!
Your opinion. However the prices of all coachs have gone up for 2003, I have seen teh price increases when iCountry Coach was privately held and there is no difference now, if anything they have been less. I have not seen QC go down either. I just speced out two identical coachs for my own knowledge, a 2003-40' Intrigue Tag Axle and a 2003-40' Dynasty Tag Axle.
The Intrigue cost $7,000.00 more, based on a retail coach of $330,000.00 or so I think that is pretty close. On top of this the Intrigue has IFS, Large 12R Tires, superior fit and finish, a slide mechanism that allows you have tall doors on both sides and your slide exterior is completely wrapped, even the base. You get a coach that was built over the course of 12 weeks verses 5, the chassis has been on a dyno and checked for HP, torque, leaks, shift patterns, etc. No one else dynos there coachs, they let the new owner be the dyno. I have had half a dozen customers call me in the last two weeks that have toured CC and seen the 2003's, they are shocked with how much they have changed. The interiors did a complete U-turn, especially the Allure.
The exteriors have much improved, the new standard features, pantograph bay doors on the Intrigue on up standard, hydronic heat standard across the board, wall modules in the living room, 42" drop down plasma TV standard in the Magna, Affinity, and Lexa. I am REALLY looking forward to Perry, GA. in a big way!

In closing I have an offer for you, I deal with many customers each year.
When I first started selling Country Coachs it was always the Intrigue, Dynasty, & American Eagle, that was in 1997/1998. I had a customer who called Beaudry RV, Guaranty, Buddy Gregg, Lazy Days, etc. He called all the big players and asked for the SERVICE MANAGER. He told the service manager at each dealership that he was in the market for the above three coachs and asked him which one he would buy. I wont tell you the answer but I dont sell Dynastys and American Eagles and still suggest this often! Oh, the customer bought a new 1997 Intrigue, the first Country Coach I ever sold, now he is on his 3rd Country Coach, a 42' Magna.

Damon

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1267
Damon,

What dealership do you work for? I would love to stop by and meet you in Perry. Don and I study a lot and we are always impressed with your knowledge of the products. We have found few salespeople who really know all their products.

See you in Perry,

Linda & Don
Intrigue 10678

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1268
Hello Linda & Don,

I work for Shorewood RV Center in Anoka, Minnesota.

Thanks,

Damon

22 above and a storm coming

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1278
---Hi Damon,

Thank you for your thoughful reply. You have confirmed some of my suspicions that buying another coach will not automatically solve all of my problems.

Could you calify a few things? (By the way I go the idea that 2000 Allures and Intrigues had different wheelbases, I asked a salesperson at Guaranty why and he told me that the Allure has an older design?)
*1) Regarding the handling on my coach, I took it to the factory and they re-set the ride height, jacked the front shocks up to five, gave me new tire pressures to use and sent me to a alignment shop in Eugene that is highly respected. The shop told me that the camber, caster, and toe-in were out of whack and even had to add shims to the front end to align it. They said that it was bad "even for an Intrigue".

As I continued to experience wandering, I approached David King from Doug Rutherford,s group (CC Chassis Support)regarding my dissatisfaction at the rally in Tucson (please be aware that I drive the legal speed limit --- up to 75 in some western states and tow a 4,000 lb car). David told me that the is my coach was more that 800lbs out of balance side-to-side that I would not be able to get it to "track", and that 600lbs way really the limit. I weighed it, it is 1200+lbs. heavier on the left side 1050 more pounds on the left rear than the right.

I went back to CC for assitance, they told ne that David was wrong and he should have never told me about the balance, then declined to provide any asisstance to me. I even e-mailed Don Fults, but he handed me off to Doug, who told me what I just related.

*I used the formulas in the Toyo book to calculate the proper air pressure and they did not agree with what CC told me. The Toyo recommended pressures did help. One dilemma is that, according to their chart, my back tire pressure shold be almost 20lbs less on the right side that the left. For safety purposes, they told me to run all four at the pressure for the heavier side.

Is it possible that I have one of the old lighter chassis with the 12R 22.5 tires put on it? My Intrigue is 11142. can you help me find out?

If I do not stay right up on the wheel all of the time, it will go off the road or over the lines. I cannot even look down to set the heating and cooling system, or change the radio without having it 2-3 feet off line when I look up.

Do you think that I should set the back shocks on five as well? It seems weird to me that the factory would stiffen the front, but leave the back end softer.
2) You mentioned that Safari and Beaver "blew themselves away" using a C-12. Is that because of price?

3) Would you recommend a higher end Beaver (Thunder, Marquis) or
Monaco (Signature, Executive, Dynasty) to get a better ride and handling? I am concerned about turning circle. That is why I am leary about an older Magna. The best handling coach that I have ever driven was a 1993 (I think) Magna. I have not had an opportunity do drive many high end coaches, so some gudance would be appreciated. I had a '96 Discovery before and hated it. I thad the crummy first generation Frieghtliner X chassis that bent and twisted all over the place.

In an attempt to prove to you that I am not "picky" here are issues that I have had:

*The bad handling

*Alignment problems (uneven tire wear)

*Cracked chrome on left front mirror

*Crack in roof (small).

*Awning flew open on freeway and damaged housing because the lock is inadequate. No one told me that you need velcro straps on it until after. CC refused to replace awning, said I must have left the lcoks ope --- I don't think sooo.

*Control cable on drivers seat broke

*Entry door lock jammed. Door needed adjustment

*Heating and cooling piping behind dash was not hooked up

*Counter top cracked twice, requiring two replacements

*All of the indicator lights failed on the control panel requiring replacement of the entire panel

*Upgraded Affiinty cooktop was installed. It was loose and would not light. Entire unit had to be replace

*Slide out baskets in pantry broke and require replacement

*Several peiece soft internal rubber window trim were impoperly installed and required triming and repalcement

*Hydronic heater would not work because of bad wiring connection on main power switch on control panel. Had to have it fixed twice because the factory used black electrical tape the first time instead of soldering it

*Cooling fan system for the engine was runnign wild creating massive clouds of dust. Electrics had to be replaced and repaired
*Circut breaker for house electrics kept tripping. Was found to be to small a rating for the application

*Exhaust for generator broke and fell off coach while driving. A cheaper little muffler was put on the feft side as a fix.

*SmartTire sender failed on ruight inside dual
*Cummins Coburg replace compressor on engine due to recall. The left a cooling hose loose causing it to overheat twice and requiring a late night rpad service

*The fuel gauge was off by 25 gallons and needed to be replaced. I ran out of fuel with over 1/4 tank indicated. It cost me $350 for a service call and CC declined to reimburse me
*I had a low power complaint anf took it ot Cummins four times (once being charged $340). They told me "no problem". It turned out that I was right and the secondary fuel pump was shot. My rear wheel horsepower was only 240 and they tried to tell me that was normal. It was 25hp below spec for a 350

* I have had it to Coburg, Las Vegas, and Bloomfield California for the oil blowby problem endemic to the 350 ISC (they decided to change the location of the blowby tube on the ISC and it has cause many problems). Coburg replaced the breather, it worked for 7000 miles. I was in Vegas, they DISCONNECTED MY PACBRAKE and charged me to do it! I took it to Bloomfield to do the modification to the PacBrake (Bulletin #157). They replaced the fuel pump, a leaky valve at the coolant filter but did not change the PacBrake. In the process they put back in an old valve cover gasket and the coach pumped out 7 quarts of oil all over the caoch and my car in less than 100 miles! I took it back, they fixed the leak, and modified the PacBrake. Now I have less PacBrake and still have blowby. They have ordered a experimental valve cover to see if that might help. It has the breather is in the valve cover (like all pre ISC 8.3's) instead of the block

*I was losing coolant because of overheating and had to have the new, high capacity coolant tank installed, which is a fix for 2000 Intrigues with Hydronic heat that loose coolant.

YOU MAY BE RIGHT, I MAY BE TOO PICKY, BUT FOR AN 18 MONTH OLD 1/4 MILLION DOLLAR COACH WITH 30,000 MILES ON IT IT SEEMS LIKE ALOT TO ME!

WHEN I BOUGHT THE UNIT, I WANTED TO GO HAVE FUN. INSTEAD, I HAVE BECOME A SLAVE TO IT --- SPENDING MASSIVE AMOUTS OF TIME TRYING TO GET IT FIXED AND WONDERING WHAT WILL GO BAD NEXT AND HOW I CAN GET HELP TO FIX THE PROBLEM. THERE ARE NO RELIABLE CC DEALERS IN LA OR ORANGE COUNTY THAT I CAN FIND. I HEAR LA MESA IN SAN DIEGO IS GOOD, MAYBE I WILL TRY THEM???

Charles Gauthier
Trabuco Canyon, CA

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1280
Good Morning Charles,

First your coach is a factory 12R / 2.5 coach according to your serial number. Also you canot take a small tire coach and put 12R tires under it, they just wont fit. Your unit is one of the best, if not the best "tracking" coachs I have ever driven. That 281" wheelbase and IFS combined is a winner that no one else has. I think you need to start from scratch, here is what I would do in your shoes. First, try to open/restore a line of communication between you and Doug Rutherford. Knowing your coach is heavy on teh drivers side maybe you could shift some items around in your basement to help? I am guesing your ride hieght has been updated (one valve in the front, two valves in the rear), I would have this checked again. Visually does it look liek its riding level? Then I would have it cornered weighed and call upon Jon or Rob at Les Schwab in Junction City for proper inflations. Last from what you are telling me your alignment is not right, it needs to be aligned again. Try a different truck center and have Doug work with the shop while it is there. Your shocks are only going to effect the ride, we usually set them on medium all the way around. Now you may want to schedule an appointment at CC service and have them do the above, maybe Doug could oversee the project and test drive it when its done? This of course would depend on your schedule.
Safari & Beaver went down for poor quality control, there last ditch effort was to try and sell horsepower, it didnt work. I would not recommend any high end Safari, Beaver, Monaco products. You have quite a list of repairs, a good portion of them are Cummins issues that I see in our Newmar products and Holiday Rambler products also. One thing I have learned is there is always two sides to the story.

In closing, if you want to more than triple your list below, buy a Beaver, Safari, and Monaco. I belong to the Monaco owners group as well, you know the one that is only for OWNERS. Why do you suppose that is? Newmar just pulled there entire line from La Mesa.
No one likes having problems with there new RV's, and its no fun being the salesman on the other end of the phone line. As an example, I just sold a 42' Magna, the owner gets to AZ. with it and calls me up mad, he chews my a$$ out becasue he unplugged his unit after 3 days and only after 3 minutes of being unplugged, his auto gen start fired up his gen? After listening to him go on for 10 minutes I call CC and Heart and ask them to call this customer. A couple of days go by and I am thinking, I wonder what happened? So I call CC and find out that after he unplugged he turned on his inverter.
He then fired up his TV, a toaster, and the convection micro-- his volts fell down into an area that tripped his auto gen start, a small portion of the story he neglected to tell me...........Like I said, there is usually two sides to the story. Your coach needs chassis attention, ask Doug for help and work together to get it fixed.

Good Luck,

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1281
Charles, I can relate to some of your problems,i.e. my counter top broke twice, the hydraulic fan running away ( I could write a long story about this ). The problem you have that I find most "Intrigueing" is handling. My coach 10941 was an early 2000 model with all the tire replacements. I never had any kind of handling problems until they re-configured the ride height valves from two in the front and one in the rear to one front and two rear. Ever since that change my coach "darts" like it never did before. I have talked to Doug Rutherford about it and he claims there is no reason that change should have caused such a problem. I like Doug and have alot of confidence in him, but the fact remains I still see a difference in handling, albeit not nearly as severe as you describe.

One other thing----while in Tucson this winter I drove a 2002 Dynasty 40' with three slides. They have not gone to IFS due to their airbag placement, but I was amazed at the short turning radius of that coach. Also, I find their three slide design superior to CC's.

Good luck with solving your problems.

Walt Rothermel

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1282
Charles,

At times, when reading your post, I thought you must have come across my Intrigue 11066 history. We too, have had about 80% of the travesties you outlined along with others that apparently you have not had the chance to "enjoy".

Our generator exhaust hasn't fallen off but that may be attributable to it being inoperative for the first entire year while Lazy Days and CC pointed fingers at each other and did everything but address the problem. Our charge air cooler blew out - cost to us about $700.00, the exhaust manifold cracked as a result of this and the Pac brake about went to melt down. Still, only had the coach in camp Cummins for about a month, as you say not bad for a 1/4 million dollar vehicle.

Latest round of band-aids provided by Buddy Greg (at a further $1,500,00 cost to me) included the third counter top (warranty), complete rewire of CB radio because original wiring and fuse assembly were corroded beyond repair.
Photographs of corroded entry door, cracked roof (several places), retensioning of driver side awning that frequently blows out in high wind driving. Repair leaks and refill dash air system (third time), analysis of uneven and severe front tire wear to hear only that, for an Intrigue, this is pretty good(!), etc., etc., etc.
By and large, we have given up any idea of ever having everything working and simply do not have the time to work through the endless quibbles with CC about warranty work, poor design, non-existent QC and so on. Enough parts usually work for us to get from A to B - a sort of very expensive and unreliable van conversion is what we really got for our money.
The sad part about all of this is that one is not likely to do any better elsewhere. We have looking at the Monaco Executive but have been warned that "... if we think CC is bad, try Monaco!...". It is truly shameful that we, the consumers, permit such appalling design, manufacturing and service to be perpetuated by these "don't care" corporations.
We either need a Japanese company (where they believe in testing and quality control) to enter the market or, we need a consumer group to co-ordinate some of the common but serious issues and organize class actions to compel the manufacturers to pay attention. Unfortunately, organizations such as FMCA, Sam's Club etc., are too dependent on manufacturer advertising to be able to act as consumer advocate which is not to imply that they don't care.
If enough people actually care about these issues, feel free to drop me a line, either on this bulletin board or direct to peterh@.... I would be willing to act as an initial "Complaint Co-ordinator" to determine whether there is any merit to such an idea.

Peter

Britannia Inc.
800-274-5245

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1283
I understand how you feel (degreed psychologist). I read with sympathy your commments that you "...WANTED TO GO HAVE FUN. INSTEAD, (you) HAVE BECOME A SLAVE TO IT --- SPENDING MASSIVE AMOUTS OF TIME TRYING TO GET IT FIXED AND WONDERING WHAT WILL GO BAD NEXT"

I have a '98 CC Intrigue that is absolutely perfect and always has been. It's difficult to understand how your's could be soooo bad.
However, I have a solution. I'll trade my perfect '98 even for your continually problematic '00 Intrigue. I won't expect any cash from you for handling your problems.

If you prefer to continue the struggle with your unit I have a few comments:

-- ALIGNMENT --

--In your remarks about alignment you state that the shop told you "camber, caster, and toe-in were out of whack and (they) even had to add shims to the front end to align it". Do you know that shimming is the normal methodology (in fact the only correct way) to adjust caster and camber in large vehicles? This does not mean that there is anything "bad".

--Regarding the adjustment to the shocks. Assuming that the shocks are in good operating condition this adjustment will not affect tracking. You will only experience either a harsher or softer ride by adjusting the shocks.

--Your comments regarding steering "If I do not stay right up on the wheel all of the time, it will go off the road or over the lines. I cannot even look down to set the heating and cooling system, or change the radio without having it 2-3 feet off line when I look up" appear to be the real root of the problem. Please don't drive on my roads if you really drive this way. This has to be a tremendous over emphasis of a problem. What do you do turn the wheel loose and hope everything is ok?

I surmize that you have become very emotional regarding the problems you perceive with your coach. Exxagerating the problem as you obviously have in the comment above will lead a good service man to try different things just to satifsy you. This, after several attempts by different people to correct, will lead to real problems.

I suggest you start by trying to re-establish some level of reasonable dialogue with the CC people and request that they set the coach to factory specifications (at your expense) so that you can start from the beginning. After accomplishing this stop the exxagerating and deal with facts. I think you will find that you will get a greater level of satisfaction.
If you don't want to do this then trade the unit for another brand so that you really have something to spend your time and emotions on.

Of course if all else fails you can always trade for my perfect '98 Intrigue and let me deal with the continual problems of your coach at no cost to you.

CC has the ratings they enjoy from RV Consumer groups because on the whole they build a dependable, reliable and high quality coach. Are they perfect? Heavens no. Perfection would meand $10 million per coach rather than the quarter million you paid. After all you purchased a new house and a new vehicle at the same time and all in one unit. Have you ever made either of those purchases separately that were perfect?

Loosen up, stop whining and have fun. Hush! Stop generating your own problems. Life if too short for you to be this upset over a machine.

By the way I am not affiliated, nor have I ever been, with CC, its dealers, relatives or friends. My only association with them is that I am a very satisfied owner. I have had many other brands but none as "good" as my '98 CC Intrigue.

Ready to trade if you are,
Joey

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1284
Wow,

I've always been a CC fan and thought my next coach might be a CC.
I currently own a Newmar Dutch Star, good value for the money, but an entry level pusher. What I have been reading of late about CC leads me to believe that their products from the early to mid '90s might have better craftmenship and quality control. I have read too many posts about diesel silt ending up in the ceiling of a CC.
I have friends who have owned a couple of Foretravels who tell me everybody they have met that owns a CC has been towed at least once.

The quality control items listed lately sound more like Monaco than CC. I also believe pricing has gone way up without justification and the house warranty doesn't reflect much pride in the product.
My 2000 Dutch Star has 16,000 miles and I have yet to find a fit and finish or any house defect. My Spartan chassis has had no problems, nor my Cummins ISC, other than the compressor recall. My biggest problem was a recall of the fuel filler vent hose which when replaced pinched the return fuel hose when the fuel tank was reinstalled and caused leaks.

I am sure there are many, many very happy CC owners just as there are unhappy Newmar owners, but it is disheartening to hear of the problems posted on this great CC owners forum. It is clear that ALL RV manufacturers, appliance manufacturers, chassis manufacturers and drivetrain manufacturers have a long way to go towards good quality and reliability and I hope forums like this will help drive the manufacturers in this direction.

Jeff Regan

2000 Dutch Star