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New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Yahoo Message Number: 13302
First let me give some background. I spent two years researching diesel motor homes, and the same two years trying to find the right dealer. Country Coach kept coming back the clear choice. Lazydays (Tampa) was the best dealer I found in the Florida area where we live. This is our first coach. We wanted to buy the right coach the first time to avoid trading. I still feel Lazydays is the best in our area although not without problems. Country Coach has so far been the most disappointing decision I believe we have ever made.

We decided to special order the coach to get everything we wanted. This was our dream for two years. Country coach gave all the right answers. Best quality by far, said they would watch the coach and make sure of quality control. Everyone with Country Coach was very nice and convincing from the Rep at Lazydays to all the employees we dealt with at the factory. We were told the coach would be inspected, not by one person, but a group of quality control employees to make sure everything was perfect before leaving the factory for Lazydays. We would and did receive pictures as the coach went down the line. When the coach was done and we were anxious to get delivery, we called Country Coach to get the date the coach would leave for Florida. We were told the coach couldn't leave the factory for another two days. Why? They said this group of employees had to inspect the coach to make sure everything was perfect. We sat back waiting confident of Country Coach, and so anxious to finally take delivery. You know the feeling.
On October 27, 2004. Three months after the order was placed, we arrived at Lazydays very excited about our new coach. Let the nightmare begin! When we were shown the coach, we immediately saw the driver's side slide was in at least an inch inside the outside walls, and looked terrible. Below the slide was also rough and unfinished looking. We thought since this was on the inside of the wall area it would not show when the slide was adjusted out. We figured if it was supposed to show the area would be properly finished. We pointed all this out to Lazydays and were told by two different employees, " Don't worry about the slide, it is just a minor adjustment." THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF ALL TIME. Lazydays was very professional, and since they were the experts, we as consumers believed the slide was not a problem. Unfortunately Lazydays was wrong.

Several days later, of course after signing the papers purchasing the coach and waiting for other repairs, we were advised that Country Coach had made the slide too small at the outside wall. The slide did not match the hole in the wall, and was short at the bottom by at least 3/4 inch. We were very uneasy with the situation, but Lazydays still said they could remove the slide border at the bottom and make the border wider to match the hole. They readily admitted the slide was defective from the factory, but said it could be replaced and we would never know it had ever been worked on. We advised we would have never accepted the coach had this been known on the first day we arrived.

To make a long story short. We initially stayed at Lazydays for 31 days trying to get 40 different items repaired plus the slide issue resolved. We finally left and returned home for Thanksgiving. We left very frustrated, but still hoping for a successful delivery of a quality coach.
Country coach talked very convincing about their quality control.
QUALITY CONTROL DID NOT EXIST ON OUR COACH. As novice consumers we found 10 items on the very first walk through, including obvious items such as a hole in the ceiling, steering wheel off center, moisture in both headlights, nicks in wood work, light in ceiling cracked, and a speaker dented just to name a few. The group of inspectors obviously never looked at our coach. We were still willing to work with Country Coach, and did so for 31days waiting with the coach at Lazydays. During the first week we found over forty items that needed repair.

The nightmare continues. After three attempts Lazydays now says they cannot replace the bottom border and make it straight. They have replaced the border twice and even the three managers we met with admit it looks terrible. They have tried three additional times to get a straight piece, but cannot due to when the piece is welded it warps in the middle. Country Coach cannot provide the piece because their tooling is for the smaller width to math the slide when the slide is made the correct size.
A manager then called and asked if I would accept the coach with the defective slide border, stating that most people wouldn't notice the defective slide. They said they could clean up and repaint the wall area below the slide, but the warped slide could not be repaired as they promised. The slide would remain warped with a very noticeable curving gap in the middle. This coach has a MSRP of $412,000. We advised we would not have accepted the coach if the truth had been known about the defective slide on that first day we looked at the coach. We advised we would not accept the coach, and told the manger we wanted a different coach.

This is now over five weeks later. The coach still has the slide that looks terrible, and the coach has never left the Lazydays lot. We have missed our planned initial vacation with the coach. We are currently paying for a leased lot for the coach we do not have.
We have now told Lazydays we have had enough. We have tried very desperately to be patient. The stress has been unbelievable. We have finally advised it is now time for Country Coach and Lazydays to step up and do the right thing. We now want a different coach.
A coach that has the quality Country Coach claimed.
Lazydays has always been very nice and seems sincere, but enough is enough. Country coach claims to be the best. It's time they show it. Lazydays is now contacting Country Coach to see if they will agree to a replacement coach. Let's see what Country Coach is made of.

Let the nightmare continue.

G.Eagan
2005 Allure

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13303
Sorry to hear of your bad luck in discovering the truth about this industry and about CC in particular. You should absolutely not accept the coach with their promise to make it right in the future...once your lemon law rights expire then you will be out of luck. You must become unemotional about this and now treat it as a business decision, your opponents are treating it as a business decision and they are not emotional..they have faced this issue many times and they almost always win because rv buyers are emotional and want to do the right thing. I know many people who made the mistake of accepting their word that they would make things right....nowhere near the problems you have...but problems that should have been fixed required months and many visits to service centers to get fixed. Many of the people should have invoked the lemon law immediately and gotten their money back and moved on but they accepted the sweet words that you are now hearing....remember CC is primarily a marketing company....look at all their materials....first class in every way...too bad they don't take a portion of that marketing cash and put it into a QC program and delivery a first class product. I have been to the factory, I have waited in their waiting room and listened to the horror stories and the frustrations faced by their customers.
One fellow with a Prevost stayed at the factory for over 90 days after delivery trying to get the bugs out, he was back there again and spent another month there and there were still issues when he left because he and his wife could not face the frustations any longer. They planned to attempt to sell the Prevost for half what they had paid for it because of their frustration with the ongoing problems. Yes, if you are lucky enough to get one without the problems then you are indeed a happy camper and you are an advocate for CC products...at this point I doubt that you are. It is sad to see a once proud company falter so badly after their founder has turned the reigns over to others. Maybe Bob Lee will have to return to turn the quality issue around.

Good luck in your efforts to get the quality rig which you purchased but so far have failed to get.

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13305
Clearly this is a horrible story. But honestly, are there any motorhome companies and factories that are any better???
You hear the same thing about Marathon, Newell, Liberty. And these are all the $ Million products.

And what about Beaver (down the road from where I live)? And Monaco? Don't think for a second these are any better!
Where can we go if we want the get the coach we really want?? I still maintain that CC is the best in this clearly flawed industry.
I agree that we must deal with problems the moment we recognize them.
Goodness knows we had our problems with our new 02 Intrigue. And it took meetings and hostile conversations to get it right. Unfortunate - yes. But necessary. And problems were handled in due time.
I'm about to face it again next week with delivery of our new Magna. But this time, I'm prepared!
Tom

05 Magna on-order - and holding my breath.

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13306
Thom,

The hostile conversations wouldn't be necessary, imo, if CC would face up to the problem when it is obivious, as it appears in this case, that their assembly people have totally screwed up. It would appear to me that happy customers would be their goal rather than requiring customers to turn into bazaar type hagglers to get the product they have purchased. It turns into an unnecessary stressful situation for their customer who they claim to really value in all their advertising pieces.

The one coach company I know of that truly seems to take quality seriously is Tiffen and I have never met a Tiffen built mh owner who is unhappy with the product support from Tiffen...

Ray

2000 Intrigue 11040

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13307
Quote
The one coach company I know of that truly seems to take quality seriously is Tiffen and I have never met a Tiffen built mh owner who is unhappy with the product support from Tiffen...
The ironic thing is that, as good as Bob Tiffin's aftermarket support is, they're still building coaches which have a list of problems from the git-go.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13308
That may be, I cannot dispute that, but I have never met an unhappy owner from Tiffin. Another company that has a loyal and very happy customer base is Foretravel. Ironically, they are both still family owned businesses. It seems as if the "big boys" are the ones that couldn't care less after the sale, flowery sweet talk aside.
Max 98 Affinity #5487

Maybe one of the last of the good ones, but still not without small problems, but that is another story.

New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13309
Thank you for your response so far to my problem. I appreciate any advice any of you veterans might have the time to share.
Since I have never taken delivery after 5 weeks, I am asking for a different coach. I just can't take a coach in this price range with clear undisputed defects. Lazydays was to speak to Country Coach on Friday, but I didn't receive a phone call back and now it is the week end. I was promised a phone call on Friday, but it never happened. This causes more frustration.
I don't expect Country Coach will immediately agree to replacing the coach, but I don't see how they could possibly have any ground to stand on since the coach has never made it through delivery. The coach has never left the lot.
I have never mentioned the word lawyer. I hope to resolve this without legal problems in an ammicable way. On Monday I will most likely hear from Lazydays. I have to think about my response. Any advice from veterans would be appreciated.

Thank You,

Gary Eagan
2005 Allure

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13311
I met a guy in our subdivision that is building a new house, and staying in his Allure. He also had some big time troubs, including getting a complete new rear end. He is still a CC fan however.

Our new 2005 Affinity is far from perfect, but Lazy Days has been pretty stellar in staying on top of our little complaints. Our unit did not get a PDI, it got a PDG (Pre Delivery Glance), but we are confident all will be well in the end. We are not whiners, as we did not expect things to be perfect out of the box. We did lots of studying thruout our short MH history (three years, third MH), and went into this with our eyes wide open.
Buying a more expensive coach does not, unfortunately, mean getting a perfect coach. It seems to mean getting the inevitable problems taken care of with minimal hassle. We will see. We had a Newmar before this ... far from perfect despite the almost spiritual reverance exibited by Newmar owners.

I can't think of a good alternative to a CC. Tiffen has there problems. It seems the best way to get your Tiffen fixed is to take it to the factory. After the big guy retires, or dies, who knows if the present dedication will continue. I have read it might not.

Crap shoot no matter what the entry level.

I feel for you big time, but I think things will work out. I have faith in Lazy Days ... and a great attorney if I am wrong.

Good luck ...

BTW, where is your lease located ... in FL ???

John

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13312
Egan

Don't accept the coach. Get a good lawyer and stand your ground. This coach will never be right until it is returned to the factory and is rebuilt with a new slide. You are working with a good dealer and my guess is that they will step up to the plate. This is not the first time they have had to deal with this kind of problem. Good luck! I hope to meet you some day and see your second new coach which hopefully, will only have an average list of new coach problems. We have all been there to one degree or another.

Gary Stanton

2002 Intrigue (which is as close to perfect as you can get)

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13313
Hi Gary,

Over the last four years, several coach owners have personally written me with their multiple issues. The bottom line was to immediately purse the lemon law. Google: Lemon Laws Florida. Invoke it immediately, using the correct forms, do not tell them, do it without emotion. Do not lose your money.
Fred Kovol

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13316
Fred-

I agree. We both know many honest, dedicated people at Country Coach that try their very best to make things right. Whether that's true of the very top management remains to be seen as they continue to ramp up sales. In the end, the market will be the final judge.

Gary Stanton

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13317
Quote
(snip) > I have never mentioned the word lawyer. I hope to resolve this without legal problems in an ammicable way. On Monday I will most likely hear from Lazydays. I have to think about my response. Any advice from veterans would be appreciated.
Years ago, my brother gave me a book on "assertiveness" and I actually read it. Or most of it, anyway . One thing I remember is the recommendation to deal with the people who are in charge of making things right. And do NOT immediately call the President of the company or equivalent 'cause there's a good chance that'll p'em off. I know it may not seem "fair," but I've had very good success doing what the book recommends.

Also, rather than emphasize what a piece of crap a product is, emphasize how the failure of their product has adversely affected your life. Not a good idea to tell 'em to "stick their (crappy product) where the sun don't shine."

Of course, if the above fails, all bets are off .

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13319
But, you get to deal with Pat Mason and Carolyn Gsell this time and I think, you'l be better pleased. TWI 11731 2004 Intrigue.

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13320
You have not talked to the same Tiffen people I have; Cat diesel engines failing due to lack of cooling capacity, Allison trannies in distress, bay doors that don't line up and windshields laying on the ground, plus the usual. TWI

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13322
Stand your ground. Insist on a meeting with the CC Rep there and someone from LazyDays management that can make a decision and committment, then ask for an immediate conference call with a CC factory official that can also make a decision. Whatever is agreed to verbally, request it in writing. Whatever you do, do not take delivery of the coach. Do not let your emotions get the best of you. As others have mentioned, this is all business. Lazy Days will take advantage of any weakness shown.

Buy the way, what is the coach number? Just for future reference.
Who knows, it could show up in a topic discussion years from now and it would be interesting to follow this one.

Good luck....

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13335
To all CC group members

I truly appreciate everything members have done so far. It is absolutely great to know this group exists at least in part to help other members. I have kept track with posts on the group for a long time, but never posted since I did not have a coach. The group's comments along the way helped in our decision to buy a CC. We still want a CC. Sometimes in the big city you loose sight of how nice people really still are. I related in an e-mail off the group site how impressed we have been with the RV community. During our 31 days staying at Lazydays (LDs) before we left for the holidays, and also during our travels shopping for a coach, we have met so many nice people. With all the problems we still managed to have fun. We have already made friends with several couples whom we plan on meeting on the road someday. We also want to meet everyone on the CC group. We were told a CC rally was coming up, and intended to check into it and attend before all the problems came up and we now don't have a coach yet. My wife and I are out doors people, and want to see the country up close and personal. I'm 57 years old and although my knees bother me a bit, my wife and I hike to every waterfall we can find.

I appreciate all the advice from everyone. I believe Monday or Tuesday will tell me the position CC and LDs will take. I will then have to decide what to do at that point. I have not lost confidents and LDs or CC. I do think both companies have shown in the past they have the capability to do the right thing. The only problem I've had with LDs is sometimes they lack showing too much concern over my situation. I was told last Friday " I'll call you back today." The call never came. This has to frustrate even patient people when the situation involves so much money. LDs and CC have our coach, our money, and our lives pretty much on hold until this is resolved.

I know we cannot take delivery of the present coach although we are stomping at the bit to get going. If we leave the lot we loose. We have decided CC has to give us a different coach, or LDs has to give us all our money back. LDs has a CC coach already on order that could easily be changed to our specs, if this is resolved quickly.

Some members mentioned e-mailing CC in my support. I really appreciate the support, and maybe in the future I will ask for that help if you are willing. I do believe if people stick together it can have an effect on the result. It's sort of like fighting city hall. No one listens unless the community gets involved. However, at this point I still don't know if CC will agree to a different coach. I still have not heard from LDs. I also don't know what LDs' position will be if CC refuses to give me a different coach. I guess I'm trying to say everything is still up in the air at this point with me trying to wait patiently. I've been told CC execs were out of town last week at a meeting. LDs advised they have to contact Jack Fagan at CC to get the approval or refusal for my different coach. Maybe he was out of town, and LDs just didn't call me for that reason. Does anyone know Jack Fagan, and his position with CC? I've been told he is an exec on the service end rather than sales end of the business.

If anyone will be at LDs next week let me know. Maybe we can meet. We are returning to LDs probably Tuesday to hopefully get this resolved. If not we have to get our bicycles that are still chained to a pick nick table. We hadn't planned on being away from LDs this long, but the coach was in the body shop supposedly in the process of having the slide border replaced for the third time, before they called and said it cannot be fixed properly.

Thanks again

Gary Eagan

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13338
Jack Fagan is in charge of warranties which is why, I'm sure, he will have to get involved in this issue, Gary. I met him when I was in Junction City recently and found him to be very easy to deal with and he appeared to me to be an honest man who had the best interests of his company in mind while considering my issues as well. I'm betting that if you called him personally, he would be more than happpy to assist you.

Carol

'04 Inspire 51046

Does anyone know Jack Fagan, and his position

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13341
Gary,

Have you talked to Country Coach directly about the major problem with this coach, specifically the slide? I can't tell from your post if you have. If you have, what are their comments about the problems with the slide? The other problems are probably considered "typical" new coach issues, but not the slide.
The other thing that surprises me is that Lazy Days took delivery of a seriously defective coach, ( slide doesnt fit the hole in the side of the coach) and their only concern was to get you to take "possession" by having you sign the paperwork so it is now registered in your name rather than the coach remaining as being part of Lazydays inventory. (I assume this coach has been titled in your name now?) I realize new coaches are rarely delivered without problems and that dealers end up having to delivery coaches that need some work, but the slide out situation in this case seems to be very unusual ( slide out not the same size as the hole in the side of the coach).

Thanks, Bob...

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13345
Bob,

In regards to the slide out too small for the hole in the wall. When I first saw the coach the slide out was inside the wall about an inch. I was told the problem was just a minor adjustment. I really questioned them, but two different Lazydays employees both told be not to worry about it and said it just needed a minor adjustment. I don't really think Lazydays knew the extent of the problem until they started working on it. They did not tell me the slide wall was too small for several days. the first day they just said it needed adjusted out. When they did tell me they still claimed it could easily be fixed by just replacing the bottom border. They told me it would take several days or a week with getting parts, and wanted to know if I had the time to stay while they made the repair or did I want to come back. They made it sound as if it would be a easy fix. They also told me I would never know the coach had been worked on. I was uncomfortable enough that I told them at that point I would not leave until the slide was repaired correctly. I also advised them the slide had to look as if they had never worked on it as they promised. I'm not saying Lazydays was trying to intentional push a defective coach on me from the beginning. I believe after the expense of trying to repair the slide two different times management just decided to ask me if I would accept the coach to see what my response would be. I had been told in conversation the failed repair was 43 hours at $99 per hour. This took place two times. I did see the estimate from the body shop. This is in addition to all the other time they spent on the coach which was many hours and days.

Gary

05 Allure ( someday)

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13347
Frankly, I commend you for your patience. However, you need to protect yourself. You should write a letter to Lazydays and CC, clearly outlining the problem and attempts to get it fixed, and letting them know that you cannot take delivery of a deffective product. You should give them a short deadline to replace the coach or refund your money.

If the coach is financed, you should contact the finance company (as holders in due course) and notify them that you are not taking delivery of the coach. In summary, you need to document this and set a timeframe for resolution. Also make sure that you have documented (or have records) of every conversation on the subject.
Good luck.

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13352
What you are going to find is that CC people are the best. Oh, we can bitch with the best of them, but what I have found is that we prefer talk about are travels are friends are experiences first, and then the boys like to talk about how we did this that or the other to the coach. The gals are always talking what they are interested in and about giving us guys a hard time. The last thing on our minds is coach problems. But let me tell you about The M company and all its permutations coach owners, throw in Fleetwood, too , they really know how to turn up the heat. The Foretravel guys are like Airstream travel trailer people. They are wound up in their, rallys, coaches and life style. I did a lot of research before buying.
Sitting in a repair waiting room can tell quite a bit about a coach. TWI 2004 Intrigue

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13361
Hi Gary,

What about contacting Country Coach, did you contact Country Coach directly yourself to get their version of all of this??? What was their response? Would be very curious to know what they have to say about all of this.

Thanks, Bob..

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13366
My sympathies to Gary and others with major problems with their new CC's.
The RV market is booming, the profit margin is as important as ever, and Quality Control has taken a back seat! May I ask why you all need to trade in your old units for new ones? Is having more slides or a bigger engine really that important? The newer coaches are bigger, heavier, and more complicated so the bigger engine I doubt equals more power (it is just pushing a heavier load).
Me, I am quite satisfied with my 2000 Allure and it has been a wonderful fulltiming coach for the past 2 years. However, we are no longer fulltiming as we are now living in a southern CA house. So, would anyone be interested in a 2000 Allure, 36ft, one good fitting slide out, Cummins ISC 330hp, 8kw diesel genset, 2000w inverter, solar, Kingdome satellite, IFS with larger chassis rails and tires, 34,100 miles on the odometer, and many more options...WITH ALL THE BUGS WORKED OUT? Contact me privately if you would like more info. rvmike Allure 2000 #30493.

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13379
But who wants a Tiffen or a Foretravel, they look like something out of the fifties.

Re: New Country Coach - Dream now a nightmare

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13382
Gary,

We are at Lazy days right now and I have been working with the CC people on some problems with my Magna. Nothing like your problems, but I normally hear thru the grapevine about problems like this. You didn't mention that Lazy days has provided you with a free campsite and 2 great meals a day, plus happy hour at the Crown club Bar etc. I know it is poor compensation for your problems but it is better then most dealers give you when you are in for service problems. You also have never mentioned who you are working with at Lazy days or your coach number. I'll be in the club house Tuesday morning for breakfast, ask for Bill Gabler, look me up, maybe we can compare notes and who I would call at Country Coach.

Bill Gabler, 05 Magna #6425 .