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Let's discuss shocks (again)

Yahoo Message Number: 50322
I know we have cussed-and-discussed shock absorbers for our rigs quite a bit over the past 5 years. But I have not had the need for new shocks until recently so I have not paid a lot of attention to the earlier posts.
It appears that Koni and Bilstein are the shock manufacturers of preference these days. How do you guys determine what model number is needed for our rigs? I drive a 40 ft. 2000 Allure with the independent front suspension and 12R22.5 Toyo tires.

It's time to start shopping,
Larry 2000 Allure 30485

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50325
Larry, if I had it to do over again, I would put Road Kings sold by Henderson Alignment on my coach. I had someone talk me into the Koni FSD so I installed them. I cannot see any difference in the FSD and the old red Konis I took off. They are a bit more $$ but from the reports I have read here and on other BB's, they are way better than Koni. I would not even consider a Bilstein, they just don't have it for a heavy coach.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50327
Larry,

My coach is a 40ft Allure also and near your production number. I am curious about what are you seeing in the handling while driving that makes you want to replace the shocks? I have been wanting to improve the steering and ride on front end in some way. Not sure if replacing the shocks will offer any improvemant. Or, if I need to get the front end adjusted. I plan to take the coach to JOSAM's in Orlando the first part of next year for a complete alignment, ride height check and a good suspension inspection. That may be an opportunity to have shocks replaced as well.

Let us know how your proceed.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50330
Thanks Don and Jim.

I'll look into your suggestion, Don. I don't think I have ever heard of that brand of shock.
Jim, I have had very good handling and steering with my Allure but I have noticed that, on humps in the road, the front end bottoms out much easier than ever before and the rebound is not dampened like it used to be. The front wants to bound up and down a little more than in years gone by. My shocks are going on 10 yrs old now and they have served me well but I suspect they're getting tired by now.

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50346
Jim- I wouldn't expect any improvement on steering unless you have totally wrecked shocks on the front.
As to handling, the improvement going to new shocks can be pleasantly surprising, but enough to say WOW? That's possible if you go to truly outstanding (& truly expensive) shocks, or again, if your current shocks are obliterated. Most obvious dead-shock symptom is porpoising, i.e. front end rebounding after a dip.
You can go to Road King shocks http://www.roadkingshocks.com/ These are big bore, heavy duty valving, heavy duty price shocks, and you should be able to say WOW after you change over.
Koni FSDs or Koni Adjustables are a good basic choice. I haven't seen good longevity out of Bilsteins.
I'm puting together a double shock solution for my front end. We travel to Baja once or twice each year- bad chattery roads, and that has killed my Bilstiens in less than 10,000 on each of 3 coaches. Double shocks halve the load to each shock. I have no idea if this will be good or bad, but it will be fun to try.
Mike

I am curious about what are you seeing in the handling while driving that makes you want to replace the shocks? I have been wanting to improve the steering and ride on front end in some way. Not sure if replacing the shocks will offer any improvemant. ...

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50395
Guys

I have an 07 Allure 42'with FSD shocks. Sense 5000 miles it has bottomed out on humps in the road. I finally got fed up and called Koni, they suggested that I try the old adjustible red shock set to max. I am still out on the judgement but they are much, much better. It this doesn't do it I'm going to bite the bullet and go with Road King at least on the front to see if they work.

Doug Sherar
Allure # 31453

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50397
All

I am going to with Road Kings on my 07 Allure next week and will let the group know how it goes Jim

07 Allure 470

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50398
Looking forward to your hearing about your results. I'm also thinking about biting the bullet on the Road Kings, I'm getting tired of the Konis bouncing twice on every dip we ride over.

Graeme Arnott

09 Allure CP #31690

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50400
As soon as somebody has tried the Road Kings please let us all know, I am tired of the bottom out jaw breakers.

Frank allure 31425 wet

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50404
I have an '07 42' Allure 470 with Road King schocks which were installed when I purchased it new one year ago. Do not believe that Road Kings will not bottom out. My first experience was crossing a bridge westbound on I-40 over I-35 in OK City. The road dropped about 6" snd I thought the schocks were coming through the floorboard. I have since had them bottom out, the last was two days ago while traveling to Yellowstone on Rt 26 which is under construction. I am also going to be in Albany where I hope to meet with Lonnie (Road King owner) to discuss this problem. If he is not there, I intend to drive down to Ca. to discuss this problem. Rod5206 '07 Allure 470 #31463

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50406
Hi All,

I have watched the conversations on bottoming out for a while now. I have to make some comments and food for thought.
First, the shocks are not a part of the supporting suspension, they are an accessory to dampen oscillations caused by suspension movement. This being said, one of a couple things is happening. First the air bags are bottoming out, this could be because of incorrect ride height, the wrong bags used in the application, ride height valves used that do not have a restrictive orifice in it. The shocks may not be the correct length for the application, too long so it bottoms out with moderate suspension movement. This would indicate incorrect mounting position or a shock that is too long or too short.
Air Bags, the ride height should have the bag extended to 70 to 80 percent of its total height. The air in the bag should stiffen the suspension as it is compressed, as it increases the load on the bag, thus raising the pressure as it is compressed, if the compression can overcome the bag and bottom out, the bag is not the right one for the application. Low ride height will do the same thing.
If the shock is too long for the application it will reach the end of its travel before the air bag absorbs the jolt or bump in the road.
First, what is "bottoming" out? Is the suspension hitting a snubber, is the bag completely collapsing under a jolt, is the shock reaching this minimum length? The answer to this will tell us which way to go to correct the problem. Changing shocks until it rides better is not fixing it, it is putting a bandaid on the problem.
Spring suspension will bounce until the energy absorbed by the spring is dissipated, air bags are not a prone to doing this as the air bag only wants to get back to its happy spot....
I am in the Indian Head Maryland area. If anyone with this problem comes by this way and would like some help in figuring it out let me know. Something is causing this and it is not the shocks, they are being called guilty by association.
The coach should not bottom out even with no shocks installed. They are only a oscillation reduction device.

I hope this starts some thought processes.

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50407

Mike, that is my thoughts also, I have receintly purchased an 07 Allure 470, with only 9500mi and right away I noticed the bottom out syndrone, and the up and down with the front, bounce twice or three time per bumb, I thought the ride heigth was too low but I read up on the forum and found it to be within the margin recommened. Seem to me that it needs more air in the bags, but can you do this without damage to the system? and how? Maybe you can come up with the answer, but If shocks of this nature ware out in 9000mi I would be reluctant to purchase another set at the price they are..I have the Gold Color on the Front and Red on the Rear... maybe you know what brand they are, I was thinking they are the Koni??

Marvin, 07 Allure 470, 42' Tag, ISL 400, #31459

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50408
Mike

This is exactly what I was told by a tech I trust in HHI. It is a air bag problem.
He said something about the tank for the airbags not being big enough to hold enough air at high enoungh pressure to keep the bag firm at the moment of impact?

Your thoughts

frank allure 31425 wet

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50409
They are most likely Koni shocks. If the front end seems to bounce endlessly the bags may be too big, thus acting like a bouncing ball. It is hard to tell without examining one of these coaches. I can pretty well tell you if One ever gets to my area I bet it can be figured out. Suspension geometry is not rocket science, at least not in these coaches.
One of the first things that we need to know is what is bottoming out... The air bag, the shock, the front end hitting a snubber or stop.

If anyone is willing, lets find the real cause and fix

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50410
The ping tanks purpose is to even out slight movement, actually it acts like a shock absorber. There are a lot of air bag suspensions that do not use ping tanks and they do not bottom out. The size of the ping tank determines air volume not pressure. The bigger the tank the more movement it will allow from the bag, as the pressure change will not be a quick due to air volume in the tank.

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50411
ANY suspension will bottom out given enough of a bump. That is why there is a stop block of some kind in the system. A system could be built to not bottom out, like the baja race trucks, but it is not going to happen on the average over the road vehicle. If one is hitting bottom, then the simple answer is to read the road and slow up at bumps. When traveling north of Whitehorse the road has great bumps, called frost heavies. They were easy to see far ahead, the scraps on the pavement, rubber laid down by panic braking, plenty of time to slow down. Yet I watched others go over them at speed and watched the 5th wheel almost go air borne. Then these same folks get to Fairbanks and wonder why they have bent axles and have to wait for two weeks for new ones.

Shocks only stop and control rebound. They are designed to allow the wheels to come up on a bump, then they slow the wheel going back down, over simplified. What I want from shocks is to stop the rebound the first time, not the third. Sounds like the Road Kings do that. If one gets a shock that will stiffing up the suspension enough to stop bottoming, I don't think one would like the ride. I had the wrong shocks on a Jeep, at the smallest bumps the ride was so harsh I was clearing the seat. The shocks came off quick. They were shocks designed for towing, i.e. to stop the rebound of trailers.

Leonard
97' Magna

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50414
I am wondering if Koni quality has declined over the years. My shocks are now nine years old with 50,000 miles on them. Just had them adjusted to the firmest setting. The shop said they were in excellent condition with no sign of leakage.
Dale Loop

Intrigue 11240

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50416
Call Koni and discuss your problem with them, they were about to help me. The Gold ones are FSD's and they did not work for me either. Replaced with the red adjustable and they are better. Have not put enough miles on yet.

Doug Sherar

07 Allure 470 #31453

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50417
Call Koni and discuss your problem with them, they were about to help me. The Gold ones are FSD's and they did not work for me either. Replaced with the red adjustable and they are better. Have not put enough miles on yet.

Doug Sherar

07 Allure 470 #31453

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50418
One more question

What it you adjust and put a little more air in the bag. What is the down side of raising the front of the coach say one inch.

frank allure 31425 wet

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50419
Marvin, I would need to look at the coach.

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50420
Shocks are not going to fix the problem, they are a bandaid at best.

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50421
I cannot answer these questions without looking at the coach. The real problem is what needs to be discovered, when this is known the correct answer is simple.

Mikee

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50423
Marvin

My 07 Allure 470 bottomed out from day one when I bought it new , I am going to try Road Kings and let everyone know what happens.
Jim

Re: Let's discuss shocks (again)

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50424
Mike

This is very helpful but I haven't found anyone qualified to get into this kind of detail on my rig, I would love to get the issues checked because mine came from the factory bottoming out. Any ideas who might be able to help? Jim

07 Allure 470